Wednesday, May 7, 2014

Rob Baker asks-----

I don't go often but a link sent me there, Rob I was impressed by your blog.
Put together well, a slick presentation.
I don't agree with the over all message you send, but all in all it's better than the others I go to.

You asked a question ----
"In closing I would like to ask one question, and one question only; what do you (Southern Heritage defenders who wield the flag) lose if the flag is relegated to historical sites, museums, and the classroom?"

How about my First Amendment Rights ?
" Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

I underlined the section that relates to the VA Flaggers (and myself).
 You cannot take away our right to protest peacefully, and relegating the CBF to museums would do so.

How about my ability to Honor my ancestors, who fought against an invading army ?

I don't feel relegating the CBF to a museum or historical site is the proper thing to do.
I for one would love to see the CBF shown in more classrooms, not on belt buckles or T-Shirts, but in FAIR comparison to it's true meaning and use, with the Hi-Jacked images the KKK and skin heads use.

I ain't gonna put it away.


  1. Thanks for the compliments.

    I'm confused as to how regulating the CBF to classrooms, historical sites and museums is a breach of your 1st Amendment rights. You still have the right to assemble and spread the word of your Confederate ancestor. I never mentioned any government involvement as well. To furl the flag is a self imposed gesture.

    Can you not honor your ancestors without the flag? What is more honorable, making sure real battle flags are preserved and that the museums that preserve them are funded, or standing on the sidewalk waving 5 dollar flags?

    I'm confused as to how you think that regulating the flag to museums, historical sites or classrooms is a bad idea, but at the same time, would love to see the flag in classrooms more.

    As indicated in the comments of the post you referenced, I have the flag in my classroom among a collage of Civil War flags. We talk about the flags in war and their use as powerful symbols in the Jim Crow era. The goal is to respect the flag as a historical symbol, not to revere or idolize it.

  2. Rob:
    to suggest that any " Southern Heritage defenders who wield the flag " would voluntarily give up their flag is absurd. So in order for the flag to be relegated to Museums, Historical sites and Schools it would require some sort of Government mandate.
    " Can you not honor your ancestors without the flag?"
    I do ! This blog is one such way I do so. Keeping their graves clean is another.
    I also write poems ( they might not be top shelf material but I do what I can )
    I have two statues in my front yard of Confederate Soldiers standing by a cannon.
    There are many way to honor my ancestors without using the flag and I do so.
    By standing on the sidewalk waving a flag, I augment my efforts to honor them.
    I don't have to decide which is more important, preservation or display, both are important.

    Now then you have changed terms on me with your comment -
    Your question says relegate =

    rel·e·gate[ réllə gàyt ]
    demote somebody or something: to move somebody or something to a less important position, category, or status.

    exile somebody: to banish somebody from a country or community
    hand something on: to pass something on to somebody for that person to deal with it or provide information about it
    Your comment says Regulatereg·u·late[ réggyə làyt ]

    control something: to control something and bring it to the desired level, e.g. by adjusting the output of a machine or by imposing restrictions on the flow of something
    adjust machinery or select output: to adjust a piece of machinery or a control device on it so that the machinery works correctly
    make something regular: to cause something to occur at predictable intervals or in a regular way

    In my opinion neither are acceptable both seem to limit / control the display of the CBF, both would require Government sanctions as no "(Southern Heritage defenders who wield the flag)" will willingly give one up.

    "The goal is to respect the flag as a historical symbol, not to revere or idolize it."
    Good job ! That is what a Teacher is suppose to do.
    However I'm not a Teacher or Historian, I'm the descendant of a Confederate Soldier, so my personal reasons for the display of the CBF are different.

    1. Okay, but why? Why won't you give the flag up? What do you fly a flag that millions find oppressive? You'll never be able to convince everyone that the flag is "only the flag of the soldier," and you should not be able to either. The flag has that past, it should be taught.

      All of your acts of reverence are commendable, with the exception of flying the flag in my opinion. I enjoy the charitable works in cemeteries, historical sites, etc. I enjoy reading your ancestor's letters on your blog, they have peaked my interest several times over. I could give two shakes about you standing in front of the VMFA with the flag though.

      I used both relegate and regulate in my post, hence the confusion. In this context, relegate is to assign responsibility to something.

      Yet again, why? Why will Heritage Defenders not give up the flag? What do they lose by doing so? How does that hinder anyone's ability to honor their ancestors?

  3. " Why won't you give the flag up? "
    If I give up the flag (which I won't) whats next ? Statues, Parks, Street Names ?
    I think it would be all of the above. A number of military bases in my area are named for Confederate's, and there is or was a movement to change the names.
    That's unacceptable !
    "You'll never be able to convince everyone that the flag is "only the flag of the soldier,"
    I don't expect to change everyone's mind, I only have to change one !

    " I could give two shakes about you standing in front of the VMFA with the flag though. " - So why waste our time commenting on it ?

    "In this context, relegate is to assign responsibility to something. "
    Well I've seen what happens when the responsibility was relegated to the VMFA !

    As for the CBF being "only the flag of the soldier,"
    I have no control over who chooses to fly the flag, so we are back to that First Amendment thing. But remember the same folks who abuse the CBF, do the same to other flags. I will defend the CBF and the Stars and Stripes.
    Not wishing to seem rude - but - " I will honor my ancestors the best way I can, and if I choose to fly the flag that's my decision, and I will not relegate my responsibility to anyone".

  4. In what way can you make the connection between the loss of the flag and the loss of park/facility names? The names were removed before the flags went up by the Flaggers, etc. So do the flags really matter in that regard? Also, more people are vocal about the change of names without raising the flag. Kevin Levin is usually adamantly against such name changes taking place and I am as well. However, military institutes and public parks are paid for and maintained by the public's money. If the public so wishes to change the names of certain items, that is their prerogative. Though I might vociferously disagree, unless my personal finance goes into it, there is little I can do outside of a disagree. However, that has little to do with you carrying a flag and ultimately the flag harms your cause to stop such name changes due to its rich history as a symbol of racism. It plays into the hands of those that want the changes to occur.

    The changing of one mind does not override the common opinion.

    I comment about it because I can and because I find the idolatry counter productive.

    Yes, they put an incredible exhibit inside from what I've heard, chalk full of history. That is a good thing.

    But it still does not answer the question, how do you lose anything by furling the colors? How does holding a flag truly honor your ancestor? You could be raising money to make sure the chapel stands forever, but instead you are standing outside with fake flags.

    1. Well Rob, I may not have answered the question to your "satisfaction",
      But I have answered the question. "Later"